ďťżResonance â Episode 12
Verbatim Transcript
Speaker: Viktoria Levenberg
Guest Speaker: Karen Wachs
Karen Wachs: So my husband and I struggled with infertility for eight years. It was hard for us to function at work. It was hard for us to think straight, see straight. How many people go through trauma and any kind of grief and don't take that break for themselves? I'm proud of us for making the choice to put our health and wellness first.
Viktoria Levenberg: All right, Piper decided to join us for the little intro, so stay with me, um, because in today's episode you are going to hear Karen share her journey of challenges with infertility. And you're also going to hear the top five things to avoid, from a neuroscience perspective, to keep your brain healthy and happy. So I promise this one's definitely worth sticking around for.
Viktoria Levenberg: Welcome to Resonance, a podcast for ambitious, heart-led humans craving more balance, depth, and aliveness in their lives. I'm your host, Vikâhealth coach, yoga teacher, facilitator, and fellow high achiever learning to live in tune with my nervous system, not against it.
This space is here to remind you that you can have it allâthe career, the success, the fulfilmentâall aligned with your truth. Through honest conversations, expert insights, and practical tools, we'll explore how to work with your body, mind, emotions, and spirit, not against them. And the best part: you don't have to stay stuck in survival mode to get there. Because true well-being is not about being perfect. It's about being in resonance. Let's dive in.
Viktoria Levenberg: Welcome to today's episode. We've got Piper joining us here today as well to introduce Karen, who is a fellow health coach, and I'm so, so excited to share this story. Because Karen and I are really on the same wavelength. Um, we've both come from a corporate background. Um, we've, uh, definitely shared a lot of circles together. And we're both really multifaceted beings.
So yeah, I share a really deep connection with her, and I'm really excited for you to hear Karen's story as she shares her eight-plus year journey of struggling with infertility and just the resilience that she's had to show throughout this time. Um, and how this journey also helped her then find her purpose and bridge the two things that she's been so passionate about.
Karen talks about health from a neuroscience lens, so we, in true health coach fashion, nerded out about a lot of, uh, things to avoid to make sure that you stay happy and healthy. Uh, we introduce her to the concept of Hokey Pokey, which is, uh, quite funny because it's very known here in New Zealand, obviously, but apparently not in America. So that was something new for me to learn.
And lastly, just the fact that knowledge is power. Um, so this is just another episode that shows that we don't know what's going on behind closed doors and what's happening in people's lives. So be gentle to your colleagues, to the person next to you on the bus, the cashier at the grocery store. You never know what they're coming home to. And, uh, this will make a lot more sense when we dive in. So enjoy.
Viktoria Levenberg: And before we dive into the episode, I just wanted to let you know that we will be talking in this episode about infertility and, um, the loss that comes with this. So if this feels a little bit too triggering for you, feel free to skip this episode and just make sure to go gentle and do what you need to, to take care of yourself.
Viktoria Levenberg: Welcome, Karen.
Karen Wachs: Thanks, Vic. So nice to see you.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, you too. And I mean, how good does it feelâjust this little grounding we did beforehand? Magical.
Karen Wachs: Yes, magical. It was a total shift from the day into this space here, um, getting ready for this conversation with you.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, the feeling's really mutual. And Iâyeah, we're just here today to chat about you, your experience, you know, kind of your life and journey. And I also love that, you know, you're going through a lot right now as well, which I think both of us can resonate with quite a lot. So it'll be really interesting to kind of have a camera lens on the past and also notice how, in real time, we navigate the ebb and flow of life.
Karen Wachs: Yes, agree. Um, I know you and I have kind of always been very much on the same path with our work life and corporate life, and then also trying to pursue this dream of helping people and fulfilling our cup in that way. And so, um, just a lot of resonance with you, which, which is great. And I really look forward to speaking with you today.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, well, let's get started then. I think, um, it would be great to just have a little introâyou know, who you are, your background, what you're doing now. Just kind of to warm up and, and get a sense ofâI know you will, but yeah, um, someone listening may not.
Karen Wachs: Hahaha. Sounds great. Um, so my name is Karen Wachs. I am from New York State, and, um, I'm currently living in upstate New York. And IâI was born and raised here, and, um, love the state of New York. Um, there's just so much to do here and so much beauty with the four seasons that I really appreciate.
And, um, Iâfor the last fifteen or sixteen years, I have been in the medical field, mostly in neuroscience. And, um, I have always had such a passion for health and wellness and nutrition. Um, probably started around, you know, twenty, almost twenty-five years ago that I developed a passion for it. And so, you know, throughout my career I was always dabbling in trying to learn about best practices for health and wellness and stay on top of the trends with foods and, and chemicals and what to try to omit and what to try to, you know, fill my plate withâboth literally and figuratively, I suppose.
And so finally, last year, um, my husband and I took a little hiatus from work. Um, we had gone through, um, a handful of really tough years, and so we decided to take a break and just focus on us and focus on ourselves and our marriage and decide what we want for the future.
And, um, during that year I decided to enrol in the Institute for Integrative Nutrition and, and, um, become a certified health coach, which has been an unbelievable journeyâjust learning and meeting all the wonderful people that I have, including yourself. And so, so I have graduated from that, and, um, I will be taking my, um, board certification exam next month. So I'm studying and I'm excited for that.
But, um, also just juggling a lot of other stuff in life, like all of us do, right? We're notâwe're not just one facet, right? We're, we're so many, we're multifaceted. We have our hands in so many things on a daily basis, and sometimes to our detriment, right? Um, it's just how some of us are wired. But, um, all the things I'm doing I'm really excited about, and so there's a lot of passion there. And so that's kind of currently where I am right now.
Viktoria Levenberg: Amazing. It's such a beautiful introduction, and you know I can really see how that theme of health and wellness has carried through your entire life. And I really love that you bring a light on this multifaceted nature of us as human beings, because that's the reality of it, right? Like as soon as you start taking care of your health, or you go and pursue studies or take a new job, like the rest of it doesn't necessarily get put on hold, right? And we just continue step by step.
Karen Wachs: Right, exactly, yes. So, you know, it's almost like, um, when you watch somebody juggle and they're juggling two balls, and then they add in a third one, and then a fourth one, sometimes a fifth one, and they just keep going. Um, that's kind of what it feels like. That's like the visual of what I think of. But, um, yeah. Itâs good.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, it's so funny that you mention this visual, because, you know, like I think there's so much resonance with you and I. And literally, like the metaphor that I use, particularly when I go to, like, my corporate job and people are like, oh, how's this and this going? And to me it's the same juggling metaphor, but I almostâit's almost expanded to, I feel like they're like these big medicine bowls, and I'm just throwing one up in the air and see how, like, long that one can stay afloat, and then the other oneâ
Karen Wachs: I totally get that. I totally get that. I totally get that. I totally get that. I totally get that. I totally get that. I totally get that.
I totally get that. I totally get that. I totally get that. I totally get that.
Viktoria Levenberg: That one fell over, let's get that back.
Karen Wachs: Yep, yep. Try not to hit your head as it's coming down andâhahaâ
Viktoria Levenberg: Sometimes you do. You get knocked down, get back up again.
Karen Wachs: Yup. You do. That is life. Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yup. Yeah, and yup. Correct me if I'm wrong, um, are you planning to, or have already also gone back into the corporate world as well?
Karen Wachs: Um, yeah. So that is something that's also happening in the background. Um, as I start my health coaching practiceâKaren Wachs Integrative HealthâI am also working, you know, full-time in a corporate position. And I think, you know, for practicality's sake, you know, to have that kind of steady income, and, you know, 'cause I still enjoy that angle and that, that part of my life. And I still enjoy helping patients and, you know, kind of being in the science realm.
So doing that as I, uh, build my business is, is something that I've allowed myself to do. You know, um, hmm, I think I toggled with that for a little while. Like, should I just go 100% business and leave the corporate world in the past? Or can I still do both until my business is stabilised and up and running and I'm comfortable just doing, doing that on its own? So I decided to go with both at this time.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, and that is such an incredible decision to show others that, you know, you can still thrive in corporate and have a successful career. And I mean like you went all the way, right? Like you went, you took the health, and you're like, I wanna do this for a living as well. So, you know, not everyone's gonna necessarily be as passionate as we are, right? And at the same time, like, it is such a powerful representation of the fact that you can thrive and have a strong career, and you can take care of yourself and, uh, you know, prioritise health and well-being, which is so inspiring.
Karen Wachs: Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you. And, and you're doing the same, so you're an inspiration as well.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yep. We just light each other up.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, we do, at the same time.
Viktoria Levenberg: Amazing. And so you mentioned this already in your story a little bit around the hiatus that you took from work. Um, and it may be around this time, it may even be earlier, but you, you spoke about kind of a lot going on in life, and you just kind of had to press pause and, um, re-evaluate. And before we get into, you know, whatever you feel comfortable sharing of course, I would love to hearâlike, take us all the way back to the start, where perhaps you started to notice the first inklings of when things started to feel off for you.
Karen Wachs: Hmm, oh my goodness, good question. Oh, so I think things started to feel off, um, maybe⌠oh man, that's really hard. Let me think about that.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, take your time. Um.
Karen Wachs: You know, so my husband and I struggled with infertility for, God, eight years. And, um, anyone who's been through it understands the emotional roller coaster of it, right, and the uncertainty of it all. And never really being able to plan anything, because everything has a contingency, right? And so our life was like one big contingency for so long.
So taking vacations, moving to a different location, um, deciding to make major purchasesâall of that kind of held in the balance. You know, whether we could try a different career, you know, do something different, start a businessâall of that hung in the balance until we knew if we would be blessed with a family.
And, um, so I think the uncomfort kind of started about eight years ago, because we were just in this process. Um, and then it builds, right? It builds over the years, and it builds over the years. And every year you hope that there will be some sort of resolution or some sort of answer in which you can know, like, okay, this is what's happening, and we can finally move forward one way or another.
But that took a long time to come. And, um, you know, without getting too much into it, um, I was pregnant and finally, um, got pregnant after seven years of trying. And, um, everything was totally fine with the baby and, and me. And then about halfway through the pregnancy I was rushed to the hospital with early onset preeclampsia, and it was pretty severe.
And so, um, that was a nightmare. And, um, we lost the baby, and they basically had to save my life at the same time. And, um, I was told that I couldn't carry again. And so my husband and I had one more really healthy, strong embryo that was frozen, and we decided to go the path of surrogacy.
And that in itself was a journeyâthat's like, you know, that was another year-long journey of searching for someone and finding the right person and going through all the testing and the medical and the insurance and the paperwork. And so, like, all of that was really trying as well.
But the surrogate we found was through mutual friends, which was incredible.
Viktoria Levenberg: Wow.
Karen Wachs: And, um, she was fantastic. And so was her family. She had been a surrogate once before, and she has a daughter of her own. And she was everything that I could have asked for in a surrogate. She was wonderfulânot just in a surrogate but in a friend and in a great person.
And so, went through that journey. we took the one embryo that we had left and implanted it, and by some miracle she got pregnant. And we were so thrilled. Um, unfortunately, a similar situation happened where, um, about four months into the pregnancy, um, she went for a ultrasound, um, and there was no heartbeat.
And so, you know, at that point Josh and Iâyou know, we had promised⌠Josh is my husband, by the way.
Viktoria Levenberg: Uh huh.
Karen Wachs: We had promised each other that that was gonnaâwhatever happened with the surrogacy, it was gonna be the end of the road for us. Because it had been eight-plus years, and more heartache and tears than anyone could imagine. And, um, we really needed to get back to our life and get back to figuring out what we want and, yeah, what moving forward looks like.
So I know that was kind of a long answer, but, um, that's what led to the hiatus. Um, after that second loss, we justâit was hard for us to function at work. It was hard for us to think straight, see straight. And so we agreed, and our companies were wonderful to allow us the time to take. Um, and so we did that.
And it was during that time that, um, I really got clarity on not putting off taking the course anymore. I had been putting off IIN for probably a decade, you know.
Viktoria Levenberg: Wow.
Karen Wachs: I know. I wouldâI was looking into the courses all the time, and I would dabble back onto the website and see what was available. But I finally decided that, you know, I decided that was the time. This wasâthat was the moment, um, to move forward on that. And so that's been the start of this whole new path, which has been great.
Viktoria Levenberg: This new journey. Yeah, and thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for sharing the depth of this intimate and vulnerable journey. Um, it's the first time that you're sharing it with me as well. And youâthe strength that you portray and, um, I know you said it's sort of eight-plus years, right? That is a long time. And it's not necessarily just the time, but also the emotional impact of it, right? Every time that getting knocked down, getting back up, and sort of, you know, things working out the way they did, right? Youâyou never gave up.
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And when, and when you and Joshâ
Karen Wachs: Right.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeahâand when you and Josh decided that it was the right time, it was almost like a form of protection and self-care. As well, right?
Karen Wachs: Yeah, right. Agree. Yeah. And Iâyou know, I have to say I'm, I'm proud of us for taking that time. Because how many people go through trauma and, you know, any kind of grief, and don't take that break for themselves, right? I mean, in the United States you get, like, between two to four days for, um, grieving and grievance from work, and, and it's, it'sâto me it's just so unacceptable.
I don't think that people really accept the grieving process in this country and what it entails and what's needed during that time. So I think most people just feel like they need to get right back to work, um. And, um, and so weâyou know, I'm, I'm proud of us for making the choice to put our health and wellness first.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, and also, like, I want to commend your strength in trying and trying and trying over and over again. Because, um, you kind of glossed over it, but in, in the story that you've shared there are theseâI would almost sayâmoments that can break a person. And I have seen people who have had just one attempt, right, and, and theyâthat's it. They've given up, never trying again, because of the overwhelm of the emotional weight of this.
And you persevered, and you did your absolute best, and you just took it one step at a time. And, and then when you knew it was time, rather thanâas you mentionedâlike a lot of people going back to work, like, that can be a really easy defence mechanism to suppress what's going on and to just not deal with the feelings.
Karen Wachs: That's right.
Viktoria Levenberg: And instead, the two of you said, you know what, we're just gonna focus on us, focus on our marriage, and kind of understand, well, what's next for us from here. Because you mentioned this hiatus, yeah, that your life has kind of been around. Now, eight years is a long time to also be focusing and, and centring your life around this nucleus.
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: That's a big change.
Karen Wachs: That's a big change. Yeah. And I mean, Josh and I are married ten and a half years. So two and a half years, you know, before we started all this, and, and the rest of the time has been in this struggle. Um, so it definitely has taken a toll. And, you know, you mentioned it breaking people. And this process of fertilityâor infertility, um, whatever the journey looks like for that personâum, is all-consuming mentally, physically, emotionally. And, um, it breaks a lot of people and a lot of marriages. And that is a very sad truth about the process.
Viktoria Levenberg: And there's two things that youâyou've kind of alluded to that are really important, that I kind of want to highlight as well. I think one of the things you spoke about was once, once you kind ofâthat last straw broke, so to speakâyou couldn't function at work. It, it was all really overwhelming. And the first thing that came to mind as you were sharing that is that most people have no idea what you're going through behind the scenes.
So here you are, showing up to work, trying to do your stuff, like, trying to keep it together.
Karen Wachs: Yes.
Viktoria Levenberg: And, you know, when we're in that heightened state, the smallest of requests can be really triggering. I literally had this happen yesterday, so it's also quite kind of topical for me at the moment.
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And it'sâI think just like a little reminder of just, man, like, let's all just be a little bit kinder and more accepting of each other, because we've got no idea what's happening behind closed doors.
Everyone is going through something.
Karen Wachs: Everybody. It's so true. And thatâyou know, we try to, try to remember that and reinforce that, and especially in the work that we do, um, just small reminders about kindness and, and being mindful. And, you know, like you said, everyone is on a journey of their own and has their own struggles behind the scenes. And you just never know what's, what's happening with someone. And so, um, and so, just a little bit more patient, right, a little more tolerant.
I've been saying this for a couple years, but it still feels so trueâthat we are somehow more connected than ever before, yet we are all so much lonelier than ever before.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Karen Wachs: You know, like, we have all the tools and the resources to be as connected as, as ever, right? Um, but somehow, with all that connection, we're so isolated and, me, and feel alone. And, um, I justâI, I hope, um, you know, to bring a little bit more sense of connection and, um, I guess healing to, you know, my clients and, and friendships and, and family and all of that. So, um, IâI know that I have the desire for connection now more than ever. And so I'm hoping to integrate that moving forward.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, connection is so vital and important, right? Like, look at any of the Blue Zones. What's one of the big things keeping them together? It's community. It's this nuclear family that the Western world tends to live in is such a novel concept.
Karen Wachs: Hmm, hmm.
Viktoria Levenberg: Um, yeah. Like we used toâit takes a village, right? There's a reason that's a saying. And I've, I've been sitting with that a little bit lately, you know, like realising, yeah, like in a village you'd have, like, one person that makes sure everyone's fed, and this other person is the hunter-gatherer, and then, like, everyone just treats everyone like their family.
And yet, like, here we are, we get up, zombie through our morning, come to the office, stare at a screen all day, come home, stare at a screen, go to bed, repeat.
Karen Wachs: I know, I know. Believe me, it's, um, it's something that I feel myself, even, because I have weeks where I will literally say, I left the house three times this entire week. That's insane, you know? Like, we needâyou know, and, and, and that's because I'm in front of the computer, or I am so focused in on a to-do list or getting things done to stay on top, and not taking the time for community, for sunlight, for, you know, connection.
Um, but I've become super mindful of that now, and I'm, I'm really trying to, to integrate all of that, you know, just because I feel like it makes such an impact. Even just getting outside for a walk for fifteen minutes, you know, just getting a little bit of sunlight is, yeah, is totallyâit changes your brain, it changes your mood, it changes your brain. Um, so yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Thank you for naming that, because like, we are animals, right? Like, as living beings, we're not meant to be inside this little dark box, yeah? Like, we're meant to go out there. And yet, the way that we have this convenient lifestyle set up makes it so easy for us to just stay cooped up, right?
Especially, I know kind of, um, you're in New York, you're coming into summer. For us, we're coming into winter. Like, especially in those winter months, it's like, it's cold out there, I don't wanna go anywhere.
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And I've got so much to do, so I may as well do all this stuff rather than reach out to that person I've been meaning to go for a walk with for ages, right?
Karen Wachs: Exactly, yes. Yes. But I think, you know, just being mindful of that choice is like the first step, right?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes.
Karen Wachs: Noticing, right, and being aware that we are cooped up, and that we do want to make time for other thingsâthat's the first step, um, to, to making a choice to do something different. Um, so I think, you know, if we can just be a little bit more mindful that it's healthy to get outside, it's healthy to take breaks from the screen, it's healthy to reach out and connect with people, and to see what's going on in your community. It's like, you know, it fills your cup. It's not just the physical act of getting outside. It helps you emotionally, it helps you mentally, psychologically, and I just can't stress it enough. So yes.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, exactly. Awareness is the first step, right? And then with awareness there comes choice, and then the possibility of change. And making a different choice opens upâ
Karen Wachs: Yeah, exactly.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah. And, um, you touched on this a little bit, but I would really love to understand, um, you know, take us to the hiatus. You mentioned you are craving connection, you are craving healing and rest. And I would love, if you're comfortable, to share what support, inner knowing, helped you start to reconnect with yourself again.
Karen Wachs: I think first off, IâIIN had a big hand in it, believe it or not, becauseâ
Viktoria Levenberg: Oh, I believe it, yeah.
Karen Wachs: I mean, going through that coursework reconnected me to what was important and, and what my passions were, and what I loved learning about, um, and what was important to me. And so my favourite part of my day was going through the coursework and taking notes and digging deeper and doing my own research into certain things and looking up some of the instructors from the course and, and seeing what their backgrounds are and, and just getting really inspired by all of that.
And so taking the course for me was not only inspirational and reconnected me to who I was, but it alsoâit made me feel motivated again, right? It helped me come out of thisâthe deep sadness and loss and grievingâto focus myself on something that was healing and, and positive.
And knowing that I was working towards a goal of, you know, being able to walk alongside people through their journey as they were going through challenges and difficulties, it was super motivating to me.
Um, I've been through, you know, aside from losing the babies, I've been through, um, a couple of other health challenges. And just the knowledge that I've gotten from the last fifteen years, um, working in neuroscience, plus navigating my own health challenges, um, hasâhas really, like, um, it's fuelled my passion for wanting to help others that are walking the same path and, um, just need some support and need someone to walk alongside them.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes, and it just comes back to that idea of community, as you say, right? Instead ofâthat container helped you find purpose. It helped you find like-minded people that were all going through something. Because let's be realâif you're enrolling in IIN, chances are you've gone through some shit, right?
Karen Wachs: I love that. I love that. That should be their new slogan: chances are, if you're enrolling here, you've been through some shit.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, exactly.
What a great sales pitch, right? It's like, here is the objection: oh, I've got too much going on in life. Well, let me tell you why that's exactly the reason that you should be part of this program.
Karen Wachs: Really, I love that. That's funny.
Viktoria Levenberg: And neuroscience. So this is your background, and I'm really intrigued, because, um, as you know, kind of the people that I love to help and work with are high achieversâprobably overachieversâworking in corporate, who are struggling with stress, burnout, overwhelm, all the overâ X, add your own input. Um, and you know, I could talk about stress all day, but I would love to hear if you've got, um, a neuroscience angle at stress as well. And I'd love to just hear kind of your opinion, your view on that.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, great question. Um, so I would say, oddly enoughâbut it's not odd at all, it makes perfect senseâum, the, the niche that I'm really focused on in my health coaching business is the gut-brain connection. And that axis, that constant feedback loop that's happening in our body. And it fascinates me, because it takes the two things that I love and I'm passionate aboutâwhich is, you know, health and wellness and the brainâand combines them, and shows the connection between how everything operates together, and how one thing is constantly impacting the other in a bidirectional effect, right?
And so, um, so my angle has been really exploring how what we put into our bodies and what we consume, what's on our skin, you know, our environment, what we take in, the foods we choose, everythingâhow that impacts the chemicals in our brain, and the neuroâthe neuro pathways, and the inflammation, and the beginning of certain diseases that stem when your body is not in alignment. And when, you know, your gut and your microbiome are not getting what they need and are not being supported properly, that's when things start to go a little haywire.
And just that impact on different neurological conditions that existâanything from paediatric ADHD and paediatric epilepsy, to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease, and everything in betweenâthat gut-brain axis is everything.
And, um, and, you know, people who might be listening to this might say, oh, that's all Hokey Pokey, and, you knowâ
Viktoria Levenberg: I've never heard someone say Hokey Pokey like that.
Karen Wachs: Hokey Pokey? I don't know that I've ever said it out loud either.
Viktoria Levenberg: So it's quite a popular flavour here in New Zealand, but anyway.
Viktoria Levenberg: If you're enjoying this episode and wanna stay connected beyond the podcast, I would love to invite you to join my newsletter. It is a soft little pause in your inbox, an email that you actually want to read, sharing reflections, wellness wisdom, and seasonal insights to really help you slow down and come back to yourself. You'll also be the first one to hear about new offerings, events, upcoming episodes of Resonance, and so, so much more. The linkâs right below this in the show notes. You can sign up through my website, lvnhealth.co, or by heading to any of my socials @lvnhealth. Links are in my bio. It is free, it is gentle, and always created with care. Now, back to the episode.
Karen Wachs: What's Hokey Pokey?
Viktoria Levenberg: Um, it's a honeycomb kind of sweet. So yeah, it's like a honey caramel. It's like the number one flavour here.
I'll have to send you some.
Unhealthy, brain inflammationâprovocative.
Karen Wachs: Listen, nobody's perfect, and we can't strive for perfection. So a little Hokey Pokey won't be the end of the world.
Viktoria Levenberg: I love this though. It's like, here we are talking about health, and then all of a sudden, oh yes, send me this thing that's 100% sugar please.
Karen Wachs: Hahaha. I had no idea. That's really funny.
Viktoria Levenberg: There you go.
Anyways, I'm sorry toâ
Karen Wachs: No, no.
Viktoria Levenberg: That's really funny. That was semi relevant. So you're saying people may think that the gut-brain axis is a bit Hokey Pokey.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, people might think it's a little woo-woo or, you know, I'm trying to think of other adjectives to describe.
Viktoria Levenberg: I love Hokey Pokey, I'm gonna stick with it.
Karen Wachs: But, you know, the truth is, is that there's so much research and so much science behind the idea that everything is connected, and the gut plays an impact on the brain, and the brain plays an impact on the rest of our bodies. And, um, you know, this isn't new. People might say, oh, you know, these are all new catchphrasesâthe gut-brain axis and the microbiome. It's not. I mean, just because we're hearing about it now doesn't mean it's new. This research has been going on for thirty, forty years, um, in the background. And we're just now getting real, real meaningful data. And I think it's only gonna continue, you know, now, especially with technology that we have, and, and AI and stem cells and, um, transplants and all of that. It's only going to get deeper and more interesting.
And, um, we can really impact the outcome of our health. We have it in our control. I think I read that only like fifteen to twenty percent of our health is impacted by your genetics. So the rest of that eighty percent is based on what we do and how we live our life and what we put in and on our body. And, um, I think that's really empowering.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, epigenetics is just mind-blowing. Like, I think, you know, I don't know about you, but like, the way I visualise it is like, our DNA has got all these little, almost like, treasure boxes. And then depending on, as you say, what we do, what we put in, on our body, like how we surround ourselves, um, even mentally, emotionally, you know, like, what we're dealing withâthose are like little keys that unlock the treasure box. And so maybe youâit goes kind of the inflammation and disease way, or maybe actually goes into, oh my God, I didn't know I could feel that great way. Like, that is in our control, because we have the choice.
And off the top of your headâI know this wasn't kind of like a pre-prepared question, so if you need a moment, um, let me knowâbut I would love, like, if you could share the top five things that people should avoid putting in or on their body, from a neurological perspective, or like, kind of your research side of things.
Karen Wachs: Yeah. Um, so right off the top of my head, I would say, um, anything that is, you know, chemically based, right? Anything that has to be engineered in a lab, um, is typically something that you should stay away from. And, and, um, examples of that are like worst foods for brain health or things that you put on your skin.
Um, I would say number one is alcohol. I know that's a big bummer for people, um, but, um, it has shown to really have such a negative impact on the neurons in your brain and, um, the synapses, and, and how they all, um, work and function and interact. And so, um, everything, you know, in moderationâI'm, I'm, I've always believed in, in moderation for things. And so, does it mean you can never have alcohol again? No. But maybe just become a little bit more mindful about, um, how much you're consuming. And, um, and if it's possible, I invite you to maybe swap it out with, with something else that might feel fun or would allow you to relax and unwind.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes, thank you for saying that. Like, I, I don't drink. I haven't for a couple years nowâI think it's over two years nowâand I have no desire to go back. And so yes, as you say, moderation is key, right? Like, we only have this one life, and everyone's got agency to make their own choices. And at the same time, like, it's poison. Like, let's just be frankâit is literally poisoning your body. The second alcohol enters your bloodstream, your liver deprioritises everything else and goes to battle with that arch nemesis. So just know that, and make your own conscious choices.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, IâI mean, I appreciate you saying that, and I, you know, I try to stay away from being so absolute with things, 'cause I think it can put people off. But that is the truth. The truth is that it is poison.
Um, I myself, um, didnât drink at all for, I donât know, ten to twelve years, um, just because I didnât feel like I wanted to, and it wasnât serving me in any way. And I mostly didnât feel well when I drank, and so I just chose to eliminate it, which was great. I, I didnât miss it, um, it was fine. And, and now I feel like I can have a cocktail once a week, once a month, once a yearâitâs fine. But I definitely donât, donât need it. And Iâm very happy swapping it out with something else.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, I love that. That was number one. Alright, keep going.
Karen Wachs: Yeah. Um, so next thing is sugar. I think everyone knows at this point that, you know, sugar isâit is, um, food for cancer unfortunately. Um, it is food for inflammation. Um, and I could talk to you for two hours just on the implications of sugar on our body, our gut, our brains.
And just theâyou know, there was a study done, was thatâthere were many studies that were done, that showed that sugar is actually more addictive than cocaine. Actually significantly more addictive than cocaine. And thereâs a reason that all the big, big food companies add lots of sugar to their productsâbecause we just keep wanting to eat more. And, and itâs a drug, and when you have it, you want more of it, and more of it, and then you need more just to keep your brain cells happy.
Um, and so for me, sugar would be number two.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, and I would just love to add to that as well that, as you say, like the more we consume, the more we need because we build a tolerance to it.
Karen Wachs: Yes.
Viktoria Levenberg: And there comes the dependency. And also, like, even your taste buds change. So, you know, like now, I donât know, like once in a blue moon I might have like a Sprite Zero, and even then I have to water it down because Iâm like, my taste buds canât handle the quantity of sugar in that, right?
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Um, itâs just wild. And also where it can hide. So I like, randomly had a look at some sauces we hadâwe were doing this Asian soup, and thereâs like some hoisin sauce and some Sriracha. And I was like, letâs have a look at the label.
By the way, top tip: the first ingredient on the ingredients list is always the most prominent one. So like, if someone didnât know thatâitâs always, if itâs listed first, that means itâs mostly this.
Sugar.
Fifty percent. I was like, oh my God.
Karen Wachs: Right. Isnât it shocking? And, you know, in, in my communications with myâwith my clients and my audience, I try to always encourage people not to hesitate to turn over their products and look at the labels. It can just be eye-opening. You donât have to take anyone elseâs word for it, you can just look yourself.
And, you know, if theâthe typical rule of thumb, I think, is like, if something is more than ten percent of your daily value, you should be wary of it. Um, no one serving of anything should be more than ten percent of your daily value. Um, but also just the ingredient list, right? Um, if you canât pronounce it, and it doesnât sound like it came from the earth, probably donât want to put it in your body.
So things like hoisin sauce, not only is it the sugar, but the sodium is off the charts. Um, so itâs awesome that you looked. Um, you know, knowledge is power, I think. And then you can, exactly as you said, make your decision about whether you want to incorporate it into your diet or not.
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly. Yeah.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, number three, um, I would say red meat. And againâI donât likeâ
Viktoria Levenberg: This is gonna stir some controversy.
Oh my God, I canât speak. Controversy.
Karen Wachs: Yep, there we go. I like it. I donât like to be absolute, right? I donât like to have absoluteâI just mentioned that. And so I think that having good quality red meat from time to time is good. Your body needs the iron. Not to say that you canât get iron elsewhere, but I think that the type of iron that you get from red meat is, is really something that the body lacks if it doesnât have it.
So for me, you know, a, a, a constant diet of red meat where youâre having it two, three times a week plusâthat really wreaks havoc on your digestion. So red meat can take over a month to properly digest in your gut.
Can you imagine?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yuck. Thatâs Disgusting.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, itâs pretty gross. And then, you know, you think about what ends up happening with the gases and the chemicals in your gut if something is sitting there for a month waiting to be metabolized. So, like I said, everything in moderation.
Um, if you do eat red meatâI, I do eat red meatâI try to do, um, organic, grass-fed, just responsibly sourced red meat. Once a month Iâll have, you know, maybe twice a month Iâll have a good quality piece of meat. Um, and, and thatâs fine for me. Everyone has to decide whatâs best for them. But, um, thatâs something I feel okay with.
But I can also understand people that donât want it as part of their diet whatsoever. Um, and, and the other way, where people feel like they can eat as much as they want of it and, and itâs perfectly fine, because thatâs what our ancestors did, and, and all of that. But I think we have enough data and research now to understand both ends of the spectrum.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, and thank you for naming those because, um, the two things that came to mindâthere is a Dr. Mark Hyman talks about, um, a condi-meat. So treating your meat like a condiment.
Karen Wachs: Yes, condimeat.
Viktoria Levenberg: Which I love the idea of, right? Itâs just like a little bit, a little bit of flavouring. And you spoke to the bio-individuality of it as well, right? That we are all so unique. We will all resonate with different things.
And so like, here you are sharing kind of what makes sense from a scientific perspective and your personal lived experienceâwhich obviously I very much agree with, 'cause we come from a similar school of thought. Yeah. And at the same time, there will be people likeâI have one of my private yoga clients, sheâs a carnivore. She eats nothing but meat pretty much.
Um, and when she eats plant material, she gets incredible inflammation in her back, in her tissuesâlike her flanks just puffed up. And Iâve been working with them long enough to literally see that, be like, oh, did sheâ
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: âI had some tomatoes, and this is what happens.â So I also want to acknowledge that, you know, we, at the end of the day, we can only take the information that weâre given and then apply it to our own lived experience.
Karen Wachs: Exactly. I couldnât agree more. Like, you know, I, Iâit wasâitâs important for me to stress that there is no one right or wrong in all of this. You have to do whatâs best for your bio-individuality, what works best for your gut, how you feel, um, what makes you feel well and, and nourished. And, um, again, thereâs no right or wrong on that. Um, again, just take the, take the science, take the data, and have agency to make a choice.
Yeah. Um, I would say the last two are things having to do with, um, cognition and memory loss. So like, development of dementia. And I think two of the heavy hitters on that are, um, artificial sweeteners, right? Like aspartame, saccharin, and sucralose. And those are commonly found in diet sodas, and sugar-free gum, and tons ofâ
Viktoria Levenberg: Sprite Zero.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, exactly. Sprite Zero, you know. And, um, they, they really do, they trigger the inflammation in the brain, they can damage cells, and they can lead to cognitive deficits and, and memory loss.
Um, the other part of that is high fructose corn syrup. Um, so as we know, itâs an epidemic. Itâs everywhere.
It is.
Viktoria Levenberg: In America, itâs horrendous.
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Yeah, itâsâit is horrible. Candy, energy drinks, sodas, dessertsâitâs even in things that you would never expect, like ketchup. Um, and so, you know, too much of that obviously can lead to obesity. Um, but it also has the, the neurological effects of memory loss. It can lead to insulin resistance and cognitive decline.
And so I think just turning your packages over, seeing whatâs in themâif you see any, any of these items, make a choice to swap it out for something that doesnât. I mean, weâre so fortunate now to have hundreds and thousands of companies that make cleaner products. So if you love ketchup, you donât have to have one with high fructose corn syrup. You can have one that tastes exactly the same without it. So why not just make the swap?
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly. And, um, I actually need to have a look. I wonder if itâs illegal here. Um, 'cause I know that the US is kind of very, uh, out there in terms of the stuff that gets put into your food supply thatâs not allowed in Europe or kind of like New Zealand. Um, so Iâll, Iâll have a look, 'cause Iâm quite curious.
Karen Wachs: That is a hot button issue for me. I am, um, Iâm big into food advocacy, and lots of bones to pick with, um, the US and whatâs allowed here. Thereâs over ten thousand different additives and ingredients that are banned in other parts of the world, that are one hundred percent used in our foods every day here in, in the US. And so it is so frustrating. And I feel personally responsible to help educate the population on, on these things so that they can just become aware of it.
You know, like, do you know that the US government is allowing over ten thousand banned items in other countries? Why? Why?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes, yeah. And, and that will ripple out to your clients, those in your network, your family, your friends, right? So again, with that awareness comes choice. And I justâI find that so interesting. We have this little American store here, so they import goods from the US. And every now and again weâll go, um, and like, classic exampleâyou kind of have like gluten-free advertised products, right? And thereâll be a big red sign on the shelf saying, âThis product is not meeting gluten-free standards in New Zealand.â
Iâm like, whoa. Thatâs wild.
Karen Wachs: How infuriating is that though? Isnât that wild? I mean, itâs wonderful for New Zealand, but how infuriating is that for, you know, for Americans? And to know thatâI donât know, thereâs just a whole other standard of care for citizens, um, that exists in other countries that unfortunately we donât have here. Um, and itâs hurting us.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah. And at the same time, like, that makes people like you so incredibly valuable. Because if you can kind of cut out the, the middle man and be like, hey, this is whatâs good, this is what isnât. Like, even just these five things are so incredibly informative. Like, I could speak for another three hours on them, but I know weâll kind of have to move on in a moment.
Um, I think the only other piece that I wanted to addâthe artificial sweeteners, I love that you shared that from a neuroscience perspective. Um, 'cause as you know, Iâve been studying, uh, nutrition at uni for the last year and a half. And, uh, in our chronic disease paper, we kind of looked at artificial sweeteners and the literature available there. And kind of all of the literature supports that compared to sugar, artificial sweeteners are better.
And so, like, Iâve got all these professors arguing that, well, itâs the best of, you know, whatâs, whatâs the lesser evil? And Iâm like, well, actually, how about just none? And the Nutrition Society, because they look at it from their specialty and their lens, are like, well, this better than that. And I love that youâve come in here, and it was number four, right? Sugar was number two, artificial sweeteners were number four. So it still made your top five, which isâ
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: âsaying a lot.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, and you know, I mean, thereâsâtop five is hard, because thereâs so many others, like fried foods and, and trans fats and things like that. But I would say, by and large, those are the five things that Americans consume the most of on a regular basis, that are impacting our health outcomes in this country.
I mean, Iâm sure you know that US is lagging way behind in positive health outcomes here. And, um, we pay the most for healthcare, and we have the worst results. And so somethingâs gotta change. And, and I think there, there will eventually be a shift. I see small things happening from, you know, the government levelâsmall shifts that are happening slowly, slowly. Um, I donât know that itâll ever be like Europe or New Zealand, um, but itâs nice to see that there is small, positive, incremental shifts happening here.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, as long as things are moving in the right direction.
Karen Wachs: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And also, you empower the people with choice and agency, and making their own informed decisions. Like, thatâs all we can do.
Viktoria Levenberg: Thatâs all you can do, yep. Donât wanna make peopleâs mind up for themâjust give you the information and you choose.
Karen Wachs: Yes.
Viktoria Levenberg: You choose, yeah. Thank you for sharing those. That was really interesting.
Karen Wachs: I reallyâyeah, thatâs fun to talk about actually.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, I mean likeâ
Viktoria Levenberg: Putâhahaâput two health coaches on a call and have them nerd out aboutâhaha.
Karen Wachs: I know, I know. And I get that, I get that argument all the time. âWell, whatâs better? Sugar, you know, a little bit of sugar, or a little bit of SweetâN Low?â And I donât think you have to have one or the other. Like you said, how about neither of those? And if you need sweetener in something, why not use a little bit of honey or maple syrup or coconut sugar, which has a much lower glycaemic index.
And soâ
Viktoria Levenberg: Real maple syrup though.
Because most of the stuff is made with high fructose corn syrup.
Karen Wachs: Oh my God. No no. No, Iâll just put that out there. So in the US, we call that pancake syrup. There is no actual maple syrup in it. Itâs literally just corn syrup and caramel colouring. Thatâsâthatâs whatâs used in that. Thereâs no actual maple syrup. So when I say maple syrup, I actually mean from a tree, and, and the real good quality stuff. 'Cause, you know, and, and, and itâs okay. Yes, thereâs still sugar, and they are still processed in the brain just like sugar, but theyâre not processedâand each of them have their own health benefits.
So moderation, like I said.
Viktoria Levenberg: Moderation. Listen to your body, make your own informed choices.
Yes, I love that. And so I am really conscious of your time. I think weâve got another five minutes or so.
Karen Wachs: Okay, um.
Viktoria Levenberg: So Iâalthough I could keep going for agesâso, hahaha,
Karen Wachs: Always do it again.
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly, you know.
Pivoting back to you, youâve shared a lot around, um, kind of what, what is good for us overall. You have also shared before thatâabout your journey and just the importance of connection, and how getting into this field, like bridging the gap between the gut and the brain, and kind of talking to that gut-brain axis really inspired that spark in you.
As you look ahead into your future, I would just really love to hearâlike right now, in this day, what is it that lights you up? You know, what is it that helps you live in health, in resonance, and fill up your cup?
Karen Wachs: What helps me live in health right now is just knowing the difference of how I feel when I am listening to my body and giving it things that nourishes it versus not. And so thatâs what keeps me motivated to make food at home, and to be mindful at the grocery store, and to have a plant-forward diet, you know, where my meals are based around plants and, you know, theâthe protein is a condiment, as you said.
But itâs not the main focus of the plate. Exercising and moving my bodyâlike those are all the things that just make me feel really good. And so I am mindful, and I make the choice to do that on a daily and, and weekly basis.
I think, you know, what, what lights me up right now is the idea of getting this, um, health coach certification, getting board certified, and really getting out there as much as possible, finding ways to, um, educate and be a resource for people in the community, and, um, find different topics of interest that I can talk to people on, and, and, um, kind of just open their mind to these topics that maybe they never really thought much about in the past.
Really just finding out how I can sortâsupport people on their own health journeys. And, um, been working a lot on the, on the topic of resilience and bouncing back stronger. And so doing a lot of work there, and hoping to bring some of that really good information, um, and energy to my practice and helping people with resilience, and helping them come back from any sort of struggles or grief that theyâve had.
Viktoria Levenberg: If thereâs anyone in the world that is an expert in resilience, itâs you.
Karen Wachs: I appreciate you saying that. Thatâs very kind. Itâs not easy, and itâs not about getting over things. And itâs not about, um, you know, distractions or, or anything like that. Itâs really about leaning into whatever it is that youâre feeling, allowing your body to feel it, allowing your mind to feel it, and then finding ways to grow from it, and finding ways to incorporate that suffering or grief and channelling it in a way where you can help serve and support other people.
Viktoria Levenberg: Thatâs really beautifully put. And that notion of service really came throughâkind of whatâs keeping you well right now. Yes, you talked about the physical, like the food and the movement, and then thereâs also kind of this bigger, almost, I would say, yeah, mental, emotional, spiritual health side of things where youâre in alignment with your purpose. You are of service and helping others overcome what you have overcome yourself in the past.
Karen Wachs: Yes, yeah. And thank you for acknowledging that. Um, I, I appreciate that. Even just talking with you about it reminds me of why Iâm doing what Iâm doing and why Iâm excited about it. So, um, so thatâs great. Thank you.
Viktoria Levenberg: Itâs an honour and a privilege. And to see your face light up when you do talk about itâthatâs when you know youâre on the right path, right? Hahaha. You know, itâs like that, that inner voice can get in our head, but actually when we stay in truth and in alignment, weâre like, actually, I know exactly, yeah, why Iâm here and what Iâm doing together.
Karen Wachs: Yeah, yeah.
Right from within, yeah. Thank you for that. Iâm so excited for you and everything you have going on, and you are on an amazing path yourself. And, um, Iâm, you know, love to just continue this dialogue in, in whatever shape it takes, but, um, to continue to support each other and be each otherâs cheerleaders through our journey.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes, I definitely would love that as well. And just thank you for your encouragement and support. I think, you know, we can always be our own biggest critic. So hearing that from someone else means a lot, whenâespecially when youâre like at this on your own, and yeah, you just, here you are, managing your workflows, and writing your copy, and studying for your exam.
Karen Wachs: I know. Like you said, you become robotic through it, but it takes someone else from the outside to look in and say, youâre kicking butt.
Like, you are a badass. You are kicking butt. You are going after everything that you want. And you really deserve credit and applause for that, because itâs a lot of work. It takes grit, it takes strength, and it takes, um, a lot of mental strength to, to pursue all these different facets of life at the same time. And so good on you for doing that.
Viktoria Levenberg: Thank you.
Karen Wachs: I had to get thatâI had to get that âgood on youâ in there. Good on you.
Viktoria Levenberg: Good on you. Hahaha.
Um, and last question before we close. Um, for the listeners, yeah, in the future, um, if there is one thing they could take away from todayâs conversation, what is the one thing that you hope will resonate long after the episode ends?
Karen Wachs: Hmm.
I would say, knowledge is power. Educate yourself. Educate yourself, educate yourself. Become aware and make choices based on what you learn. And decide what is serving you and what is not. And let go of whatâs not, and bring in more of what is.
And, um, I think thatâs the best way that we can nourish ourselves.
Viktoria Levenberg: Knowledge is power. Thatâsâyou can see that as a tagline.
Karen Wachs: Ha ha.
Viktoria Levenberg: Amazing. How can people find you if they wanna learn more, they wanna connect with you? Whatâs the best way to reach out?
Karen Wachs: Yeah, um, so my business is Karen Wachs Integrative Health. So you can go to karenwachsintegrativehealth.com and check out my website. Um, thereâs more about me and, um, and my coaching services and how I, I can help support you. And also my blog is on there, so you can read through all the different topics that Iâve written about.
You can subscribe to my newsletter, which you can do right from the, um, right from the website. And Iâm also on Facebook and social mediaâKaren Wachs Integrative Health.
Viktoria Levenberg: Amazing. And weâll make sure to link that all up into the episode show notes so, uh, yeah, people can get in touch and learn what number six, seven, eight, nine, ten are as well, right?
Karen Wachs: Right. Part two.
Viktoria Levenberg: Part two. Weâll bring you back for sure. Iâm good. Karen, thank you so much for taking the time, also for gifting me like a couple minutes extra of your time. Iâm incredibly humbled and grateful. And just your openness, your authenticity, your vulnerabilityâitâs an inspiration. And itâs through this connection that we give others permission to crack open their shell and start to look at whatâs going on within them.
As you say, knowledge is power. So thank you for being one of those way-showers, and for gifting me with the privilege to have you here as well. Itâs honestly been an absolute blessing.
Karen Wachs: Thank you, Vic. Itâs been a pleasure for me as well. And thank you for the opportunity to, um, give a voice to, you know, my lived experience and what Iâve been through as well. So thank you.
Viktoria Levenberg: Ah, this episode was a goodie. It was so good that Piper even wanted to stick around for this little outro. So, um, if you canât see me, she is sitting on my lap, uh, yawning, uh, because she wants to go to sleep. Hahaha.
But some of my personal insights and reflections from this episode is just the incredible resilience that Karen has shownâthat so many of us need to show. And you know what, sometimes we just gotta go through some shit to wake up.
So if you are struggling right now, if youâre facing some challenges, just know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And sometimes all you need is just someone to help walk by your side, a little bit of community to help you feel like youâre not alone.
And just the other last thing that I want to leave you withâ'cause, um, we didnât chat about this during the podcast episode, but itâs just so important for me to share with you, and clearly Piper, because sheâs looking at me very emotionally: stop asking women if they want to get pregnant. Like stop asking women if they wanna have children.
Itâs (a) none of your business, (b) again, you donât know what theyâre dealing with. So maybe someone like Karenâs been on this infertility journey for eight-plus years, and you donât know that you asking that question could be bringing up a whole bunch of uncomfortable emotions and traumas and triggers for her. So please, just do us all a favourâmind your own business. Hahaha.
Um, I say that from the bottom of my heart, because I personally, um, you know, I have my own opinions and confusions on this subject as well. And it is just, whenever I get asked by like some random stranger who I just see at the office for a few days a week, Iâm like, thatâs very intimate. So weâve normalised this in our culture, but I hope that after todayâs episode you see that, um, maybe we just wanna have a think about that a little bit.
So, um, thatâs all Iâve got to share for now. I, as always, invite you to share your own story. So if Karenâs courage and resilience has inspired you, and you feel like youâve got a story that you would like to share that will resonate with our audience, I would love to have you on. Just feel free to reach out.
And in the meantime, take care of yourself. Um, this episode was a big one, so just lookâdo what you need to to look after yourself.
Viktoria Levenberg: Alright, and just a little quick side note here. I know that in this episode, Karen and I have spoken extensively about IIN, which is the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and it has played a really huge role in both of our lives. And I will say that if there is any part of you that is interested in health, well-being, nutrition, um, and just even a small sprinkle of just juiciness that you would love to dive into a little bit more, in a really supportive, uh, you know, self-paced learning environmentâI really, really highly recommend it.
It is how I got started. Now, itâs not to say that you then, you know, kind of make this your lifeâI mean, many people do make a career out of it in some way, shape, or form afterwards. And I also know many people who take IIN, the learnings theyâve got there, just to make their own life better, and those around them.
So if that sounds like something youâre interested in, I am an affiliate of IIN. Iâll post a couple of links down below so that you can get a discount code if you do choose to enroll. Um, my top recommendation would be just to do their signature health coach training program. It doesnât mean you have to become a health coach, but itâs just got like everything in it.
But otherwise, they also have a lot of really great mini courses, um, such as like emotional eating, or gut health, a detox courseâthereâs honestly just like a plethora to choose from. Just have a dive in if thatâs something that youâre interested in. And if youâd love to hear my experience, just send me a DM and weâll have a chat.
Viktoria Levenberg: The views and opinions expressed by guests on Resonance are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of me, Viktoria Levenberg, LVNHealth, or anyone working within the LVNHealth brand. This space welcomes a diversity of ideas, experiences, and stories. Part of Resonance is learning to take what aligns, and gently leaving the rest.
Also, while I am a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach and deeply passionate about well-being, this podcast is intended for educational and inspirational purposes only. Resonance does not substitute personalised medical, psychological, or therapeutic advice. Always seek guidance from qualified professionals for any physical, emotional, or mental health concerns.
