Resonance – Episode 8
Verbatim Transcript
Speaker: Viktoria Levenberg
Guest Speaker: Jelani De Leon
Viktoria Levenberg: I will never forget how you used to be so stressed that like you would bang your mouse on the table.
Jelani De Leon: Well they wait for until their retirement before they can even travel.
Why would you wait? Because I've been working so much time in this business that I don't have time to think of something else.
Viktoria Levenberg: Golden child there for over a decade, at the end of the day still a number on a spreadsheet. What a fantastic boundary that you've set right there Jella.
Viktoria Levenberg: I'm so excited to share this episode with you. Uh this is a really special one, as you're going to hear a close friend of mine, Jelani, who I actually worked with for eight years in the same organization, share about her 20+ years of corporate experience as an overachieving Filipino lady who is now on the journey of finding work-life balance and reprioritizing her values and time.
And I really, really think you're gonna resonate with this episode. Jella and I have walked side by side for so long and grown together over time. And for any of you out there who um are, you know, just really struggling, feeling like you're overworked, burnt out, exhausted and feel like there is no, no end or no light at the end of the tunnel, I think this episode's going to really resonate with you. Enjoy.
Viktoria Levenberg: Just a quick note before we begin. In this episode Jella and I, we reflect on our personal experiences within a previous workplace. Just know that these views are our own, shared from lived experience, and do not reflect the views, culture, or practice of Mondelēz or any of its affiliates.
Viktoria Levenberg: Welcome to Resonance, a podcast for ambitious, heart-led humans craving more balance, depth and aliveness in their lives. I'm your host Vik, health coach, yoga teacher, facilitator, and fellow high achiever learning to live in tune with my nervous system, not against it.
In this space is here to remind you that you can have it all—the career, the success, the fulfilment—all aligned with your truth. Through honest conversations, expert insights and practical tools, we'll explore how to work with your body, mind, emotions and spirit, not against them.
And the best part: you don't have to stay stuck in survival mode to get there. Because true well-being is not about being perfect, it's about being in resonance. Let's dive in.
Viktoria Levenberg: Alright, so we're about to welcome Jella onto the podcast here. I am so, so excited for you to hear this story. Jella really dives into the pressure that we put on ourselves, and how she has gone from working 12+ hour days, eating lunch at her desk, and smacking her mouse on her desk—I can attest to that because I was there for many years of that happening—to now really navigating this uncharted territory of leaving the workplace at 4:00, and taking a lunch break, and really being mindful about how she chooses to use and spend her most valuable asset, which is time.
Viktoria Levenberg: We're good to go. Alright, thank you so much for being here Jella.
Jelani De Leon: Thank you, thank you for you know inviting me as well.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah and I feel so special that you chose to spend your Friday night with me.
Jelani De Leon: No, I already told you, oh 5:00 sorry.
Viktoria Levenberg: Amazing. And so um yeah look, I think to just get us warmed up and started, I know you pretty well now for cheapers—is it eight years?
Jelani De Leon: I think eight years, yes.
Viktoria Levenberg: Um and it would be just really lovely to hear you share a little, a little bit about yourself, just your background, you know. If you introduced yourself to me for the first time today, what would you share?
Jelani De Leon: I always start my introducing myself if when I'm in New Zealand that uh we moved here eight years ago with my family. It's just me and my husband and my children. It's been eight years ago. Um I'm from Manila, I'm from the Philippines and um we moved as I've said eight years ago with my kids, and we wanted to start a family.
I wanted to start a life here because it's—we felt, we felt more our children will have a better future, so that's why we moved here. We love Manila, we love home, but um after eight years I know that New Zealand is our new home and it's gonna be our home forever.
And I have um, I—we're all girls in the family. I have four siblings, we're very close as a family, we're close knit. I have, I have my most of my friends are back in Manila. I have only very few friends here, and most of my friends are coming from Mondelēz because that's where I can, I build my career in the last eight, more than seven years with Mondelēz , and that's where I kind of um form my friends as well and which is great. It's just a bonus right, having friends in, in the office and then having, and bringing them outside and bringing, making them your long life friends as well, which is great.
And yeah, so I've been with Mondelēz , I've moved different roles, um from sales operations to until to key account management role. Now I've moved to another company which it's called Walter and Wild, um they're the manufacturers of Hubbard's, which is a cereal and other products like—
Viktoria Levenberg: Oh yum, shelf stable desserts.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, shelf stable desserts like um Betty's. So there, it's, it's, it's—I've been, my career has been always in FMCG, which I've enjoyed a lot. Um I've also had an experience in L’Oréal, working with the professional product division which is more on salons, which I also enjoyed.
I think um in the last 25 years almost I, I—or 20 years of my career it's, it's, it's been in, in the corporate world really. It's been a, it's a corporate world which I've, I don't regret cause I've enjoyed every moment. There were a lot of ups and downs and stress, but once it's past, it's past. You know it, I've done it. I mean I've come to an age where I see this one, this one will pass, you know. Ten years from now I'll be like laughing about it because I've been through it. So yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, you've been through a lot of cycles.
Jelani De Leon: Cycles in my life definitely. But still whenever there's something comes in, it kind of like there's still like, still some anxiety of it but in my head I know that I can do this because I've been through it before, or in a different way but I know that this will, this one will pass. This one I can survive, you know.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes, you can survive and you've got your tools, and you've kind of learned from the previous ways as well, right?
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, yeah absolutely yeah. Um and I'm really curious, I don't think we've kind of spoken about this much, but you mentioned, you know, you were um in Manila, your friends and family are mostly there. I think you're the oldest of four sisters?
Jelani De Leon: No, I'm the third in, yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Third in, yeah. OK you're the third, um of four sisters and um you're moving to New Zealand is, is a really big deal. Now you're a fellow Kiwi, congratulations, here forever.
Jelani De Leon: Congratulations too.
Viktoria Levenberg: Thank you. What made you move to New Zealand?
Jelani De Leon: Being a Filipino and living in a developing country, opportunities for us is very limited as compared to you. You're European, you have more doors open for you, you can be globally competitive. But I never had that as a, as a—as I was growing.
Even with my career, going to, to different countries to, you know, to apply for a job, it will be very difficult for us, for any, for any Filipino, unless you are working in as a nurse or you know as a doctor in medicine, then you can, you can, might have an opportunity. But it's really, it's, it's not easy.
Viktoria Levenberg: And before you go forward, why is that? Just for people who might not be aware.
Jelani De Leon: Because they think um being a third world, a lot, there's like, I don't know, maybe a discrimination because a lot of Filipinos also going illegally as migrants, and then they kind of do not give that opportunity for them. So it's, it's more of economics of other, I mean it, because it's not, it's not a developed, it's not a, it's not a, one of the biggest and richest country and they don't have the power to negotiate that globally, so that's why the opportunity for Filipinos are very limited.
And it is just hard because uh even if they're well educated, they can speak English, uh they're hardworking, the opportunity is not there. It's not just open for them. So when we had the chance, when New Zealand opened uh for families or for people who want to migrate, we took advantage of that. And I was very—my husband and I, very blessed to have a job and be able to stay and have working visas, and eventually become residents of the country.
And mainly because the reason why we did that is because for our children. Because our children will have better opportunities than I did. So that's, that's the main reason—that my, my girls will be able to uh go to, to a, a globally competitive university, and they be able to just move to other countries like Commonwealth countries and, you know, it's just different.
So I want to give that as a gift to them and have that opportunity that I didn't have, which means it's up to them, like if they wanted to be bigger or bigger than I, it can do more than I did. So I think it's just, it's just for them. And of course the safety is also very important for us, because back in Manila it's, it's, it's, I'm always worried about them. Like I can't let them just go out on their own, they just have to have their, someone with them like their nanny or you know, or us. They never went on public transportation mainly because it's not, I don't feel that they're safe.
So yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And here they use their bus.
Jelani De Leon: Busses, yeah. And walk around to go to school, yeah. So even if it's a late time they just, I don't really feel very much worried as compared when they were, we were in Manila. So yeah. And it's, it's a, it's—and the weather is great, like I mean I love the weather. So yeah. So it's just, there's a lot of things and, and New Zealand is really a beautiful country. I mean you, you can attest to that coming from you know, Europe and then you stayed here. So yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah exactly yes. We should get a job with Tourism New Zealand.
Jelani De Leon: Ha ha ha ha.
Viktoria Levenberg: Um and oh yeah, thank you for naming that as well. You know, the challenges of being a Filipino woman and just not having necessarily all of those doors open to you that say, like I have the privilege of having. Like so many times we kind of have our blinders on and don't look at those realities, yet they're there. And those, you know, discrimination is real unfortunately. Social inequities are real. Sexism is real. And so I'm just really grateful that you, um you kind of brought that up.
Jelani De Leon: Um and you know, yeah even, even back, it's also different like if I will apply for a job at my age, cause you know already I'm not very young, so um there's also a very limited in, there's a limitation in, in the Philippines where as you grow older, the, the doors just are very—I mean they're not closed, it's just that it's just very limited.
Viktoria Levenberg: The gap narrows
Jelani De Leon: That's what I'm saying, yeah. The gap narrows.
So it's not—I think here it's, ageism is, is something that they respect. So they, there's not a lot of ageism, as long as you are capable to do the job, and as long as uh you are fit into the role, and they will not discriminate you for that, and which I appreciate cause even, even if I work until I'm 60 or 65, no one, no one will judge me for that. They will just be happy to take me in because they know that I can do the job.
But in Manila, that could be discriminating in terms of age, because they want someone younger in for that position. So it, it's something that also that I'm grateful of, cause I know in, in um, in western countries, western world they, they don't look at age as part of a requirement whenever you apply for a job.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, yeah. No I don't think you even have to put it on a CV, like your date of birth, gender, and even photo doesn't need to go on. Um however, you know, it's still once you get to the interview process, there's still kind of those further steps to, yeah, steps to climb. And um yeah, I've seen you work for the last seven to eight years, and you're incredibly hard working. You put your heart and soul into everything you do.
And I will never, I think I will remember this for the rest of my life, Jella—forget how you used to be so stressed that like you would bang your mouse on the table.
Jelani De Leon: Well to be fair, my mouse was not like, I'm having a hard time with that mouse, and then I'm getting stressed with, with the regional managers and everyone else like ah. It's, it's, it's not because I hate my job, I guess it's just more of how I can just express myself, you know what I mean?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, exactly, just letting that stress out, right.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Um and throughout your life, and it, it might also not necessarily be at the time that we worked together, it could maybe be beforehand or a little bit later, but you know, you mentioned um how you've gone through so many cycles of these ups and downs and ups and downs, and over time have learned certain tools and strategies to help you navigate those ebbs and flows of life, right?
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And is there a specific time or place, an experience that you remember where, you know, it's almost like the eyes flashed open and you were like okay, things aren't sustainable this way, something needs to change for me in the way I approach my work and in life? Is there perhaps a memory that comes to mind?
Jelani De Leon: I cannot see it, it's just Mondelēz . I guess any corporate world, right? It can be very, very stressful, um.
Recently, when I was… I'm feeling like unhappy in a way that every Monday I would feel, oh, it's Monday, I don't wanna go. I don't wanna work, or I'm finding… I'm trying to find a reason—can I be sick or something just so that I won't show up?
But because of my grit to work, because I know that some, you know, because I know that someone's might do—I mean someone's like, like wanting to meet me. I don't want anybody to do my work because I just don't want to do my work, so uh huh, I uh… but I, but I'm not—but I'm very unhappy.
And then I, I just kind of like wait, if I'm feeling this way, um, and I don't think it's very healthy for me because I'm not getting any younger. And I've… it was just, I was… I'm definitely like feeling, dragging my feet whenever I drive down to our car park. I'm like, it's like I always sigh, and I've been feeling that in the last year.
Not because of the different role that I've been through, I know that even before that, as a category or as a point of buying specialist, I started to feel that towards the end. And I have to stop and think, what do I want?
Because I want to be in a corporate, but do I wanna be in a global or big companies where everything is just fast paced? I'm not saying in my new job it's not fast paced, but I think it's the culture-wise as well.
I'm not saying that Montreal doesn't have a culture, but I think because the rhythm is, because of the culture of working late is part of it. And it's just part of it, like everyone's doing it, so it's just part of it.
But with this one, I feel like there are times that you will, but they will find a way not for you—not to do it, not to that, not to happen. I think it's very important for any leaders of any businesses that they will actually do it.
They're saying that, oh, we have to have work-life balance, we have a time off, but that's just—it doesn't, it doesn't work. Because mainly we have so much things to do, and that time is just finite. And even if you take off one day, they'll give you that, but you have to make it up for the four days when you come back. So it doesn't make sense anymore.
But in other… now I can, 'cause I have a comparison, one of my line managers said that, uh, there will be times that we will have, we have to work harder because, or we have to run—we have to sprint, yeah.
But, but it doesn't have to be that all the time. But if that, you feel that it's, it's sprinting all the time, then you have to tell me. That means there's something wrong with your… that means the job doesn't fit to your life. I mean, to your—it doesn't balance, it just has to have a balance. And then your well-being is very important for us.
And that coming from my line manager, I felt like, okay, this person cares for me really. And then one time I was, like, Friday and she said that, what are you doing here, you go home. And then I said, I have to finish this, what's that? And then she said, that's not rushing, that can wait on Monday. Just go home, everybody go.
Viktoria Levenberg: That's amazing.
Jelani De Leon: They just say, don't, just go home, just yeah, forget it, just pack that in, we can—that can wait, you know.
Yeah, and that's just great, I mean um. There are times where, uh, I… as you said, they kind of like cycle, and whenever I feel like, hey, this has to stop, I'm… I'm always, I always said, I work hard, and I really give my best, and I always wanna feel energized. And because I'm very passionate in what I do.
But when you feel like you're, you're feeling flat, you know, and then you're feeling the purpose is fading away, yeah. And then that's kind of like, hey, do I still wanna do this?
It's because sometimes it's—you, I wanna be part of a global company because you feel good about it, right? Like working with Mars Wrigley, working with L'Oreal, working with Mondelez. These are biggest global companies in the world. And if you say that you're working there, people would get impressed and you are proud.
And if I say I work with this company, they would say, where's that? You know what I mean? They don't know. And then when you're younger, I guess it's important for you, but as… but when you get, as you get older, what's it, what is it important, what's important for me?
Important is like my family time. My girls are growing up, they're gonna leave soon. And then I'm not getting any younger, I get tired easily now, especially with my menopause that just came in. And I'm like, I'm not the same, I don't have the same agility that, or energy that I have. So I wanna be happy as well.
And then I just kind of like make a choice in my life: where do I wanna be part of a global company, or do I wanna be part of a company where I know I've been getting taken care of? I mean, it's been four and a half… it's been a month, just a month now, but I feel like the way I see the people around me, my colleagues, I feel, I see them that they're…
They don't—because they don't, they do leave not really early, but I know that they were, they were able to do their job, that's why they're leaving earlier than I, than I expect them to.
Viktoria Levenberg: Uh huh. So yeah, and then, and what do you consider early? I'm curious.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, like 4, they're gone by 4.
Viktoria Levenberg: Mm hmm.
Jelani De Leon: I'm like, oh, 4 o'clock. I mean, 4 o'clock, we're still having a meeting.
Viktoria Levenberg: Mm hmm.
Jelani De Leon: We're still having a meeting, just discussing whatever, you know, a lot of ABMs and stuff or, yeah,
Viktoria Levenberg: Like a 4:30 or 5 PM on a Friday?
Jelani De Leon: It's like oh my god.
And making—yeah, 5 o'clock messages on your Teams, that's… that's, it's yeah, it's…
Viktoria Levenberg: Not sustainable.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah.
It's… I realized that, oh, it's possible for people, I mean, in any businesses, that you don't really have to work at that time.
So, or they—I guess it's just people just have to, I mean, even the leaders themselves say, no more emails at this, you know, no more emails.
Viktoria Levenberg: Mm hmm.
Jelani De Leon: So, you know, or no more, they just have to like…
Viktoria Levenberg: Lead by example.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, or even just say, just make it a rule, I mean, so the people—
Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And so, and then it will be a culture.
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly.
And I love that you named that, because you mentioned kind of the importance that the leadership played in your organization quite a few times. And like, hearing your line manager tell you to go home and like prioritize your well-being, and know that, yes, like there will be times of intensity, and then there will be a baseline where things are just smooth. And if it's too intense, then tell me, because things are not sustainable, right?
Versus I think, yeah.
That baseline is very different across many different organizations. And now I laugh because like, anytime you look, like, at a job advertisement, and you just see like a high-paced, uh, you know, agile work environment, it's like a red flag.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, I guess, yes. That's true, I mean, I, I don't know, because I'm still… if I was, if I was like in my early 20s, I'll be like, yeah. But if you're like a mother, especially if you have kids, growing kids, oh man. Oh, it's gonna be crazy schedule for you, and you wouldn't even think about yourself.
Yeah, um, even in the past, I mean, it's a bit different for me because back in Manila it was really crazy as well, like, because I always work with global companies. And um, but because I have, um, support system back home, it's different.
I don't have to worry about the kids, my kids' dinner or whatever, so it's, it's… you have that support. But if you don't have support like here, I mean, it's gonna be very difficult for you.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, yeah. It's hard being an immigrant and kind of coming here, you know, basically by yourself as a family unit, and without kind of family and friends and other support kind of that you're used to leaning on.
Jelani De Leon: Right, yeah. There's times, there are times that, I mean, it's, I mean, I've always… my, my stint in, in a, in each of the businesses that I've joined, like Mondelez, like I'm sorry, Mondelez, like 7 years, right? And L'Oreal is like 4, and, and my Mars is like 10. It's long.
I, I think I have that, um, strength and energy and passion to stay, because I… you do fall in, you do, um, like fall in love with your business, the company and the brands, because you… they're being part of you.
But there are, but there are times in those years that, do you still wanna do this or what? And then if you need to do some, a change in what you're doing, let's say, um, you want a different role, or you want to just say it to your manager, or I want to do something different.
Or, this is one thing that I regret in my life, I think when with Mondelez, if maybe it could have been different, if I could have asked for… 'cause I was, I was having my, my perimenopause and my, you know, my menopause, I could have, I… and then I could have asked for a longer period of… I mean, I could have asked for a leave.
Like, you know, there you can actually avail that, where you can say, can I take a 3 months off?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Jelani De Leon: I didn't. I, I could have done that, like, if maybe I could be, I'd still be in the same business. But because I was afraid of not telling or not… or being tagged that, oh, she's just doesn't wanna work.
But actually, if you need it, then you just have to say it, like if you really need a break. You don't have to be really sick, you know what I mean.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes. It's okay to just not feel 100% to take some time, right?
Jelani De Leon: I think it's an Asian thing too, like, if it's just you, sometimes you just—you have a flu and, or you have a, um, uh, what it called, cold.
Viktoria Levenberg: Mm hmm.
Jelani De Leon: And, and, and because this cold doesn't go away. And I think you just need to take a rest, and yeah. Us, for in, in my, in my, and I don't know, in my family dynamics, it's just that if you have cold, just take a, take a medicine or something and drink a lemon tea, and you'll be fine.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Jelani De Leon: That's just a cold. Cold is, you know. But I know what you mean, if you need a break. And you, I think this is the things I've, I wanna change in my life now, where if I feel like I need a break, even if it's too busy, I know it's, it's never gonna, there's no one—there's not gonna be a right time, right?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Jelani De Leon: Because, just, just call it and say, I'm tired, I don't wanna do this. Can you give me this break because I'm not in my good headspace anymore.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Jelani De Leon: And I think I have some time out, yeah, time out. And just because you don't have to—because you're going to a holiday, you know. Just if you need just to go and stay home and feel bored and miss your work.
Viktoria Levenberg: Mm hmm. Yeah.
And just nap and nap, binge out and whatever, just yeah.
Take a moment, take a step back, right?
Jelani De Leon: But I think one of the problems will be like, because of the responsibilities that you have.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Jelani De Leon: Like if you have a mortgage, then you kind of like, oh wait, I have to think about these plans, because you have to plan it out, because, or financially, can I be off for three months? And you just have to prepare for that.
So I think there's, there's some things that you need to do, if you, if you wanna do that. You just have to be making sure that you're prepared for it as well.
Viktoria Levenberg: Especially if you have children to feed.
Jelani De Leon: Exactly.
Viktoria Levenberg: And, and it's so important, right, because like, you don't necessarily wanna take some time off to kind of recuperate, to take care of your mental, emotional health, and then have that be a knock-on effect, say, like, to your financial well-being, right?
Jelani De Leon: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And then you're stressed about that, and you've kind of just taken one problem and shoved it into the other.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, true.
Viktoria Levenberg: And, you know, ideally, I, I don't talk kind of about financial health so much, but it's been a really big part of my own healing journey over the last kind of year and a bit and…
You know it's like so many of us, um, especially women, uh, still are not necessarily active investors. So many of us don't have a three to six, or maybe even twelve-month cushion of living expenses.
For that exact reason, as you say, like if push comes to shove, that you can then—so yeah, actually I can take that moment, and I know that everything else, all my needs are met, right?
So that's also like another way of showing ourselves self-care, and being really choiceful about the decisions that we make.
Jelani De Leon: Cause I don't have any other source of income and I then—one of the things I've thought about in the past few weeks and say, "Oh wait, I think I cannot be dependent on my salary."
You have to think of something that—where you can either save or invest, and have other income. Mainly because that's where the stress comes in. You wanna take a break, but you can't because you have so much paying, bills to pay, so, and you cannot afford or, you know.
So there's a lot of things. But there's one—last night I was just like looking at my, my Instagram, just looking some, some reels, and one of this couple, I was so jealous of them, and they were like—I'm not sure if it's even true—she's, they said that they already retired at 55 because at an early age they were able to invest and blah blah blah, and then they just ripping off whatever investments they have.
So they just at 55, because that's their goal. And I think one of the regrets that I had is like, I wasn't aggressive—or not really aggressive, I wasn't a risk taker enough to just explore other financial, uh, sources, resources that you can have.
So—or maybe I was just because when I was younger, I spent too much like buying expensive stuff, you know, unnecessary stuff, so unnecessary. So there's a lot of things that things are just wasted, and if, if it come back, and then I should have, I could have, I shouldn't have bought this, some things that I don't even need.
Remembering back in when I, when I actually improved, when, when we are, while we are here, when we moved here, because that's a realization for me. When we moved here, I have, I—we have a, we have a big house, have so much things, and I couldn't bring everything—anything I mean. I couldn't bring everything.
I can only have, I can only fill, I think, five boxes, because it's more expensive to put them in a—to ship them, everything in the container, ship them here. So it might as well buy here. So I just realized that, oh my God, if I die this everything, live—I have to leave everything. And I just gave away most of the stuff.
I just gave away, or some, some of them I sold. But that's a realization for me where if you don't really need it, then that's—don't buy it. Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, like even for clothes.
Viktoria Levenberg: That’s a powerful realization. Mm hmm.
Jelani De Leon: Like, yeah. So yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: And I also wanna acknowledge that there's a like delicate dynamic there, cause I love that you touched on the subject. Like, I have been working with Kate Northrup and her Relax Money program. This is my second year in a row now where, you know—we haven't actually spoken about this much, kind of you and I—but I used to be a chronic over-spender.
I was just like shop my, you know, my stress away. And never look at my balances or my expenses. Like I could not tell you for the life of me what it costs to live, you know.
Jelani De Leon: Because I deserve this. Like, I deserve this.
You know, like because you've worked so hard.
I deserve this, yeah, I know.
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly.
And it's almost like that, you know, unconscious spending became an outlet for the stress that was coming through work. So I just really love that you named that, because it highlights the importance of even our financial health as self-care.
Because the reality is like, if—first of all, obviously if we're spending more than we make, then danger, right? But also, second of all, yes, you need savings. And at the same time, if you only have a pot of money like sitting in the bank, that's going to be eroded in value because of inflation, which is why it's so important to be investing so that your money grows in value, like you.
And I feel like we, especially as women, like are just not speaking about it enough. And so, um, yeah. I'll just leave it at that. But I hope that it kind of plants a seed, you know, for both of us and, and anyone who may be listening about just okay, well, what is it about my financial health that I can do that can also be an act of self-care?
Whether it's understanding, okay, like how much does it take to live per month? If I needed to take a sabbatical, what would need to be true? How can I secure other sources of income so that I am not dependent just on this one corporate salary, and then feel like I have to give my life away to them.
Jelani De Leon: True, cause sometimes people just work so hard, hey. Like they wait for until their retirement before they can even travel for three months or four months. And why would you wait? Don’t wait.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes, exactly. Like life is so short, and like you say, we're—none of us are getting any younger, right? Like we have these bodies to use and enjoy for a finite amount of time, and like, we may as well enjoy ourselves while we're at it.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah.
It's great that you touch on that. Like, you don't—you, you have that part of, a part of money or a—like a savings that you know that if you wanna take a break, you can. And then because you were able to do that mainly because you have other sources.
And it just—I think I'm not good at that because I work. You know why? Because I think I've—because I've been working so much time in this business that I don't have time to think of something else, you know what I mean? Like eight to twelve—like I worked eight to, let's say, six o'clock in the, in the evening, and then sometimes you do some work at the evening because you, you have to like, uh, pull out a PNL or something like that, you know.
And then there's—and then if you have a free time, you just don't wanna do anything anymore because you're just too tired.
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Now, back to the episode.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Jelani De Leon: But the thing is you, you might wanna, you know, work in the certain hours, and then if you have a spare time, you have like, you more time to think of something else.
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly.
Jelani De Leon: Because I was so busy, like, and with my kids, and, and just with my work, I don't have time to be more creative enough to do something else. So yeah, I think, um, if, if with—in, in the, in, you know, in the future, is if anyone listens to this conversation that we have, they just have to learn if you're, if you're a younger listener, you have to think now.
You have to think it now because—mm hmm—um, it's, time just flies so fast. And then suddenly you're turning 50, and then you just kind of like throwing away your 25 good years of your life mainly because you've just give it away to this corporate world.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, which unfortunately, we're just a number on a spreadsheet.
Jelani De Leon: True.
Viktoria Levenberg: Like true, you know. You and I have both had that experience. I also wanna stress that now is the right time for everyone. Like I know you say like, oh, you wish you had done it when you were younger. Yes, great, that would have been a great time. And the second best time to start is now.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Right?
Jelani De Leon: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Because otherwise, five years from now you're like, oh, well I wish I had done it five years ago.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, true.
Viktoria Levenberg: So it's like, wherever you are, however old you are, like start now. And also like I wanna acknowledge the fact that back when you were working those ridiculous hours, right, like 12-hour days, let alone also trying to manage a household and your girls and, and everything, and cooking dinner—which by the way, you're an exquisite chef.
Jelani De Leon: I enjoy cooking. I mean, I think it's one of those stress relievers, like just doing, like I mean, having conversation over food. It is great, right?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes, it is such a good vibe. And, um, you know at that time, like you say, you had no capacity for anything else. Like your stress bucket was overflowing so much that when you finally did get some downtime, it was just like ugh, let's exhale, and I don't wanna do anything. Don't touch me, don't look at me, don't talk to me, let me just be and recover, right?
And so of course it's understandable that at that time you didn't have, you know, the, the mental, the emotional capacity to look at other avenues, etcetera. Which is also why I love that we're talking about this, because it highlights like those extra, you know, how four, six, eight hours that you could have had in your day, rather than investing them into finalizing that PNL and being the perfect overachiever and the shining star.
It could be kind of—that time could then be invested into other areas of your life. Be it your family, right, that core memory that you spoke about earlier of like, more time on the beach with the girls, etcetera.
So yeah, it's just sometimes hindsight is really powerful. And now that you've got more capacity, I'm like so excited to see what's gonna be coming up for you, cause you've shared a few things that you wanna do differently, and, and I would just love, you know, for you to share, like, what is it that you do now? Like what's helped you navigate your stress up to this point, and then what else are you curious and exploring?
Jelani De Leon: Currently like their time, cause because of my behaviour, I mean it—I cannot change overnight. Uh huh. I've been this person for many years that I know I wanna be. I'm an overachiever, I wanna be like ahead of everybody else, and I just wanna be the superstar.
And then kind of like that attitude, it, it just—there was, I just need to train myself. There was one night I was really tired, but I wanna do something, and I kind of like, you know what, I'm not gonna do this. I just, I just, I'm not gonna do this.
I, I can do this tomorrow. If it didn't fit my schedule, all I have to do is tell my manager that, well, I worked eight to five, and then this one is an extra. So I just didn't do it on time, because I have other things to do.
I just, I just needed more courageous of, of what I'm doing, cause I always—I'm a yes person to my, to my team and to my line manager. I'm always say yes, I can do that, I can do that. I don't know how to say no. That's one thing.
Viktoria Levenberg: So boundaries.
Jelani De Leon: I have—yes. I have to do boundaries.
Jelani De Leon: Yes. And I've learned, I'm trying to learn that now. Like yeah, nope, I'm not—I'm gonna just not do anything tonight. I just wanna look into the, what are the things that I want to learn, or what are the things that I wanna do on the weekend. Like oh, maybe a good recipe, you know. Just, you know, things like that.
Or, so one time, I just look into what are the best superannuation investments.
Viktoria Levenberg: Haha, yeah you go girl.
Jelani De Leon: That's the thing, that just, just look in—look into the internet or something. So—or just enjoy, enjoy a movie and just laugh or something.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes. And, and like, you know, pursue hobbies, read a book, just actually practice doing nothing. Which, I'm gonna be the first one to put my hand up and say, doing nothing is the hardest thing for me still. Like I really struggle with that.
So as a fellow high and overachiever, I really resonate with what you're saying.
Jelani De Leon: Oh God, yeah. It's just, yeah. You feel like, I feel guilty whenever I like, "Wait, there's a pending, there's a pending in my list. There's a pending in my list."
And you kind of want to do it because it's in my head. My head doesn't stop.
This is one of the things I have to learn, is to make my brain stop talking to myself. Hmm. So I, I have a mind chatter. It just keeps on telling me, "Okay, what to do next, what to do next."
Viktoria Levenberg: Uh huh, yeah.
Jelani De Leon: Because I'm like, you have to do something. Because if I have a spare time, I have to be productive. I cannot just—
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, there's that self-talk, right? Look at that belief showing up for you: "If there's spare time, I need to fill it." And it's almost like that anxiety that comes with a blank calendar. It's like, whoa, what am I…
Jelani De Leon: What am I doing? Like if my calendar is blank, I'm so unproductive. I'm getting, I'm be, I'm starting to be useless here.
So yeah. It's, which is crazy, which is, yeah, um, I know that I should not have that kind of attitude towards with my, with myself. But because of, you came from a very busy, crazy schedule, and when it comes to that part, you're like, you don't know how to navigate yourself. Because, wait, what's happening?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah. It's not familiar. It's like, what?
Jelani De Leon: "Wait, am I—what is happening? Why am I not doing anything? No, no."
And you, yeah. And that's why you kind of like looking for work and things, like—and because, mainly because one of the things my husband said, "Are you advancing your work?"
Cause you know that there's more to come. Like not really, because the reason why sometimes I do, um, in advance, because sometimes you do like—do we do a lot of firefighting, firefighting in, in corporate world, and then this one just—you just have to put it away. But you know in your head that you didn't finish it because you have to attend this, but you wanna do it because you wanna do everything.
Viktoria Levenberg: But the to-do list never ends. Like that's the, that's the thing. Like once we really let that sink in and like, I will just acknowledge that like, where you are is perfect, because awareness is the first step. Like you're already aware, you're already thinking, "Okay, I know I have this mind chatter. I know I have these thoughts and these habits, and I wanna change them."
And so the intention is there, and you—we just take it one step at a time, right?
Like, as you were sharing your experience of kind of transitioning from Mondelēz to Walter and Wild, what really came to me was when I proactively demoted myself, right, and I said, "Okay, I'm gonna step away from like the biggest category role that we have and kind of take a massive pay cut, take it, go to part-time."
I still remember, um, tell—telling my therapist about my experience. I was like, "It's so weird, like you say, it's like I'm just used to sprinting for so long. It's like just always go go go, like always having someone tapping me on the shoulder and, oh, you know the long nights, the long days. And—and now I feel like I have space to do things."
And her response was like, "Yeah, like a normal job should be."
I was like oh.
Jelani De Leon: I know and now I'm thinking like okay, I promised my line manager that I should have an um, I have a an early um, time off like an early time off from work. Like it’s, that say has to be 4. And I'm like wait, what? But the girl, I mean I don't know what to do on those two hours. I'm like oh wait, what am I thinking, I could go on a gym haha.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes exactly.
Jelani De Leon: I've been wanting to enrol myself to a spinning class and like this is my time. What if it's just weird, it's just weird for me, I mean I just moved four weeks ago and my life is starting to be different. And I'm just a bit confused when I was like wait, what's this just for real, am I just yeah, it's I'm just um… yeah.
And I talked to Kevin. I spoke to Kevin one time and, and um, he said that because he's been with Mon— with the, with the R— with Mondelēz for, for a long time as well. Like so it's been 10 years for him. And he's also been like one of the overachievers in, in the business and he said um, you know what, this is what is normal Jella.
Viktoria Levenberg: Mm hmm.
Jelani De Leon: It's not what you see in our previous life. That's what he said, like this is what is normal, this is what is real. Mm hmm. The life that we had is because we have a, it’s a crazy life so. And then I mean, you know what happened to him, like oh, you know we don't need you anymore. And like…
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah exactly. Golden child there for over a decade and at the end of the day, still a number on a spreadsheet.
I got demoted, I had to go a step down. Even though I know that people who were a salary grade above me got offered my role and to keep their salary grade. Still just a number on the spreadsheet, you know. And unfortunately, that's the reality. Like that's when we face these things, um, it helps us kind of reframe our mindset to, okay what's actually important to us.
And you touched on two really important things that I just wanted to circle back on. One was the kind of the time, and this notion of time, and especially now as you're in this new environment, and you've got this awareness of how you spend your time. You'll notice that actually, your workload expands to fill the time available that you give it.
So for example, in our past life where it was quite common to work late, work long hours, etc, and everyone's an overachiever and obviously you produce a lot because the workload expands the more time you give it. Now, you've got your manager holding you accountable—I love this—to finish work at 4:00, right?
And so you, you know okay well, I've only got this many hours and I need to be out of here at 4 because maybe I've got a spinning class. And you'll notice yes, it may be a little bit weird and a little bit different at first, but over time you'll notice the work actually gets done in that time.
Like, how do companies like Unilever move down to four days?
Exactly.
Yeah, you just learn to work differently because you're more well rested, you take care of yourself, your cup is full, and so you actually become more productive. It's like such a contradiction, but you achieve more while doing less.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, I guess you're right. Hey, like if—because you’ve so, you were so tired the other day, the other night, couldn’t sleep because of the stress and all that. You had like not a good, you didn't have a good sleep because you're thinking about it. And you woke up in the middle of the night because you just kind of thought, as thought of oh wait, did I do that? You know sometimes you have that, yeah.
But the thing is, if you have enough rest, then you'll be more—your brain will be thinking faster.
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly. Exactly.
Viktoria Levenberg: And have you experienced that in your life before, like where you've got a contrast between kind of like not prioritizing yourself and just feeling foggy and things taking longer versus when you had had a good night’s sleep?
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, yeah. You just make mistakes, I mean, you just—if you don't have enough rest and you have to look into different spreadsheets or you have to, to do like, you have to think of the brightest idea to present or something like that and do a building blocks or… and, and because you were tired for the past few days you just have—am I getting stupid or what? It's mainly because you're just tired.
And then you go for a weekend right? Go for a weekend, I go for a run and then just I—'cause I've been practicing this on the, 'cause it's been my practice in, in in Mondelēz when I went, moved here, that no work on the weekend. Because back in Manila I still sometimes open my laptop on Sundays just to, just to catch up and make emails, whatever, or do my uh, weekly report because it has to be submitted at this time uh.
But I did try—I did here, where I s— I don't work on a weekend, so that's it. Whatever. I mean that's a no, no for me. If any business like this business will tell me to do work on a weekend, then I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna say nope. I'd rather quit than give up my weekends or my holidays.
Yes. Yeah, money is not everything. So yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: What a fantastic boundary that you've set right there Jella. Look at that. You came in with the intention of no work on the weekends and you made it happen, right? So I know you mentioned earlier that you struggle saying no and all these, that kind of saying and setting boundaries, but here's an example of where you've already done it. Yeah, like really well.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah that—that's why uh, I think you're right about hey, I will work at this hours and then put some hours on whatever I wanna do. And I'll do some experiments, you know maybe it's gonna be different. I'll see me exactly, I don't, I don't really have to I guess.
Because the reason why I worked longer—because my, my work expands because I just let it.
Viktoria Levenberg: And because you say yes all the time.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah true, right.
Viktoria Levenberg: So also like, as you put these barriers in place, or these boundaries in place, where you're like well, these are the hours that I'm working, because actually these are the hours that I'm paid to work, right?
Like I think the first moment that for me the perspective started to shift was actually Mayara, who said like back when we were still all in one team, she was like yeah, you know the way I think about it is, I take my salary and look at all the additional hours that I'm working and divide it by the actual hours I'm doing and look at what I'm getting paid. And that makes me walk out the door on time.
And even then like, we still kind of worked a bit late here or there because that's the culture. But you've got a completely different opportunity now. And you'll notice that as you condense the work into that shorter time frame, you also sometimes need to say no. And you're like well, actually can you do this thing? Yes, but not until this time.
And that's gonna be a really interesting practice for you to experiment with.
Jelani De Leon: True. Yeah, I mean I've been trying to uh, but because of being an overachiever that's the—you have to, you know. And I've, I've changed a lot, like my ambition. I mean you have to, I mean everyone have a different ambition, they just wanna climb up the ladder and things like that. But as I got older, is my well-being is more important for me, uh.
That's why kind of like, do I really want to climb up the ladder? Like if, let's say, if I stayed in the business, mm hmm, I would be like okay maybe I would apply for I don't know males roles in someday I'm just gonna, I'm gonna put my hand up and then say mm hmm. And then for an extra hour, let's say they give you an extra—I don't know, 10K. And then you kind of like compute that, calculate that with the stress that you're gonna get. You just have another extra $500 in a month. I'd say, is that worth it?
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah I might as well just maybe find an investing company where I put my money and then maybe I'll just earn that, you know what I mean?
Viktoria Levenberg: And it just grows while you sleep. Exactly.
Jelani De Leon: So exactly. You can just do that rather than, yeah, working and promoting yourself. Because someday, um, you're just yeah, another, another number to them.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes. And, and true financial freedom starts to come when you're no longer trading your time, your hours for dollars, and instead can have a leveraged source of income. So that's, that's a really interesting kind of um, yeah, area for you to explore. And you know, you shared so much about how your relationship to work and health has changed, and I would love to hear—like now, day to day, what are some self-care practices that you have as part of your life?
Jelani De Leon: Well first of all is my time in the office. 'Cause before I would be staying like 6:30 to 7. Now I'm like leaving before 6, like just so that I can come home before 7. I mean I'm leaving like, I'm now, I'm saying I have to leave at 6 or before 6:00. I just kind of like finish or not finish or whatever, I just have to go. Now that I've, I feel like I'm getting more quicker with my work, because the first few weeks I've been like what is this, you know what I mean.
So now it's because I'm getting quicker because oh, I know, I know that already, I can do that, so it was, it's quicker. So I feel like it's gonna be more different in the next few, in the next week to come or the next months to come. Because once I've kind of learned this, I know how to just make time, I mean to manage my time. So now what I'm doing is that I have to leave before 6:00.
Even if it's gonna be traffic I know, but at least I'm listening to a radio that I can hear about the news and all.
Viktoria Levenberg: So you can listen to my podcast.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, you can listen to your podcast in the future. And then um, yeah that's the thing. And then of course, um, I do my lunch breaks now Vik.
Viktoria Levenberg: Oh my gosh, no way!
Jelani De Leon: I do my lunch breaks. I said I have to take a lunch.
Viktoria Levenberg: By the way, like for people who don't know, we used to eat our lunch at our desks religiously.
Jelani De Leon: So yes. So we just—I do sit down now. If it's just been really raining lately, but I plan, there's a really nice deck in the office, so, and that's one thing I really wanna just have, sit down, have the sun and eat. So that's one thing I wanna do, but right now I'm just having lunch. So yeah, that's one thing.
And then just, I just go walking like, oh my God my eyes are really tired, so I'm just gonna get a cup of tea and then just pour it, do some cup of tea and just breathe in, breathe out and just talk to people around and say, just chat. And I, if there are a lot of people, just chat and just go and just, yeah.
We, we, we, which we also do yeah.
So I mean back in our, in our, in back in Mondelēz, so yeah, we also do that there. So I also do that. So currently what I'm doing now is say oops, this is my time, finish or not finish, I need to go home. It means that's it, because if I didn't finish it, it means it's more than I should be doing now.
And then I can—I'm not afraid to ask my manager, say um, can I give it to this day because I'm not yet finished? Can you give me more time? And then, yeah sure, you know. Or in the end she would be like, do you need help? 'Cause is there something that you don't understand, that you don't—
Viktoria Levenberg: Asking for help.
Jelani De Leon: Yes, yes yeah yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Amazing. And I think you mentioned to me in, in our kind of private chats, that you take siestas on the weekends, is that right?
Jelani De Leon: True. I do 'cause I, you know we eat carbs on a weekend hahaha lunchtime. So you know that makes you very sleepy. I do, I do, I do um, I have like 30 minutes or an hour. I think—I don't like to have long siestas because it interrupts my sleep at the, in the evening, so I just like 30 minutes, that's it. But I'm really like, I, my, I, my energy boost up so that's okay. And then I'll just have a tea.
Or sometimes I will just, in the afternoon on, on a weekend I'll be just sitting on the floor, just staring at the sky or the tree or something like that. I am—and it's also one thing that I've done in the past few, not the past few months actually, when, when even before I left Mont Lis, I go out 'cause we have a like a 180-degree view, view um… uh, I like, what do you call that? It's—we call it veranda, that's like a in the window. So I just go out there, just look at the stars or the moon and just breathe in and breathe out.
I was just, just feeling—I learned this from you, being in the moment.
Just being in the moment.
Yeah, I learned that from you. And then I just kind of be in the moment, just feel the air, just listen to the, just quiet, or the birds or whatever, or the crickets if it's in the evening. And just, just quietness. And then I'll just have like five minutes of that, and it feels good and you kind of like, life is good. And then you kind of like, I deserve to be happy.
So this kind of like coming back to you saying I don't need to be stressed out as of, you know, in the past life, my past um, in past life. I remember what um, Carrie Morgan told me, like we're just selling chocolates Jello, remember that?
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah.
Jelani De Leon: And I sometimes forget you know. You just sometimes forget what you're doing. So you don't, you just, you thought like you're trying to save the world. And because I think most of us, even you I think, you have this messianic attitude that you're like you have to save it, you have to, you're the saving grace of—and just have to change that. You just can't save it, you can't save the world. You can't. You just—it's a, it's a team effort, so don't, yeah, don't put that to yourself.
So I, I have to, yeah, I did, I did change a lot from there in, in the past year as well. So yeah um.
So it's a, it's a mindful choice about what you are, what I wanna do in my life, in the—especially in the past year and with my menopause and, and that, how to, how I can take care of myself. That I've been following a lot of the um, I forgot her name, Doctor Jane I think, and she's very, she's an expert. So I, I, I, I uh, I'm very mindful of what I'm eating, like just on the most supplements that I take, especially at the—at the women at my age, going through stress, anxiety, it's different. Especially when you—I mean this might be another podcast for you but yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: I was just thinking I'm gonna have to get you back on to talk about your perimenopause and menopause journey.
Jelani De Leon: It's just a bit, it's a bit different journey when you're younger with how you um, navigate stress and how you navigate uh, your anxiety because when you are a certain age the level is different.
You've kind of—it's depression is there, or that's just a lot of crazy things that's happening in your head. And I didn't realize that is—it's actually about perimenopause before, and also menopause kicking in. I've never been, I'm not usually like very stressed whenever things are so many things going on. But because of my menopause I'm like, oh, this is—it's not, it's—it's, it's different.
So I just have to…
Viktoria Levenberg: It was overwhelming—yeah.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, it is, it is overwhelming when at this age when you're going through it. Everything is overwhelming, even if it's not. Hahaha.
Jelani De Leon: It can be different,
Viktoria Levenberg: yeah. So thank you.
Jelani De Leon: That's why I made a choice of that to myself.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, to take more care of yourself. And thank you for naming that because it is so important. You know, it's kind of um, I was speaking to someone else who's also going through menopause at the moment and they were kind of um, using it, the analogy of like it's basically like going through puberty all over again—just the other way around, right?
And like personally I, I cannot relate yet but it's, it's coming. And um, yeah, it's just a whole different world of like the hormonal changes that are happening with your body. And unfortunately we don't speak about it enough. We also don't accommodate for it in the workplace. So like you said, when things were really rough for you, you wish you had taken those couple months off and maybe just to focus on you and help your body transition.
Jelani De Leon: Maybe that was my Mary Perry. I mean, not maybe—it is. It was, it was Perry. It was menopausal. And you know that's it, it—it was. And I could have taken those times where I felt so um, I felt so overwhelmed, anxious. And just because I just wanna, because I'm—I was, I think I was born as a fighter, I just wanna fight it, you know? Just this will just get through and then it will just pass. But the truth is you should, could have—I could have taken care of myself.
Viktoria Levenberg: That's good, yeah. Yeah, sometimes you—it's okay to put the sword and the, and the battle armour down.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you just feel like oh, I, I'm—you feel like a quitter. But actually no, you're not a quitter. You just need to take a break.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah. Yes. Rest is also an action.
And um, the last question that I would love to ask you is kind of a signature question that uh, we've got for, for all of our guests is—if there was just one thing that someone listening to this episode could take away, what's the one thing you hope resonates with them long after this episode ends?
Jelani De Leon: You just need to take care of your—you have to be selfish. I think that's what I'm saying. You have to be selfish. It's good to be, it's not bad to be. Self-care, it's, it's important. It doesn't mean you say no when you put boundaries and if you take time off, especially if you're working in a corporate world. It doesn't mean you don't want to do your bit. You just want to take care of yourself.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes.
Jelani De Leon: You just have to make sure that you take care of yourself. You know your self-worth, and you know that you deserve to be happy. You deserve to have those breaks and you deserve also a, a, a promotion. You know, you all deserve, you deserve everything.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yes.
Jelani De Leon: You just have to know where your boundaries are and you just have to be, to have the courage to speak up.
I think one of the Asian things that we—that we have is that we just don't speak up. And I think if you, for any Asian listeners out there, just don't be afraid to say no and, or don't be afraid to say how you feel. It's not because you're not being a good employee or what. I think it's just, you just have to tell them what your boundaries are and what you wanna do, yeah. I just have to speak up. And of course you just have to be—you just a little bit selfish. Like I just want to take care of myself.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. That is such a powerful message. Like take care of yourself, speak up and value yourself, right? Because self-care is actually how much you value you as a person.
Jelani De Leon: Yeah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Yeah, what really wise words to finish on. And I'm really conscious of your time as well. I know it's Friday night.
Jelani De Leon: I know—I mean like we could speak like the whole night about this stuff.
Viktoria Levenberg: I know.
And I would definitely have to bring you back on again to chat, talk menopause and kind of really dive into that. I think that would be such an interesting kind of learning opportunity for me. And also you know, so relatable because so many women are in corporate and, and go through menopause, right? Like you said earlier, that oh yeah like when I'm in my 20s, it's cool to be part of a high paced work environment. But it's not like there's like workplace categories by age, right? Like at every workplace there will be someone who's thriving in the high paced, stressful job and then there will be someone who's like, help.
Yeah, so we'll definitely get you back on. Thank you so much for taking the time, for openly sharing and uh, yes, supporting me on this really exciting new adventure. I'm so, so incredibly grateful.
Jelani De Leon: I'm so excited for you, to be honest. I'm really excited for you. I'm really happy to be part of it. And I, I hope in the future when you publish this and people will learn from our conversation. And I just can't wait to hear it. And even, even for your other guest, I mean it's just not me having these experiences, and it's just good to have those um, to hear other people's experiences as well.
Viktoria Levenberg: Exactly. And that gives us permission to share our own story. Um, and look, this is up to you by the way—you can say no. Um, but if, if someone feels like your story really resonated with them and they would like to reach out to you and have a chat to you, is that something that you'd be comfortable with, for them to reach out to you on like social media?
Jelani De Leon: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I mean I'm happy to, I'm, I'm—you know me. Even the office is unsolicited advice I can give them. Hahaha. You know what, I can do this. Hahaha. Yeah, I love to, yeah. I love, I love to help. And if, if, if someone's just needed to talk to them, just have a conversation, I'm happy to do that.
Viktoria Levenberg: Amazing. Yeah, we'll link up your Instagram in the, in the show notes as well. So maybe you know, there's a fellow Filipino or someone from the Asian community that like just really resonated with what you said. Sure. Thank you for being so open to that. Um, please send all of my love to Joey and the girls. I hope you have a beautiful weekend and I hope to see you in person. Like we can have like—oh wait, we've got our walk in a few weeks.
Jelani De Leon: Sure, sure.
Viktoria Levenberg: So I'll be sending all those details very soon.
Jelani De Leon: I'm—it's a, yeah. Two weeks away, I look forward to it.
Viktoria Levenberg: Alright thank you. Bye sweetie, thank you so much.
Jelani De Leon: Thank you, mwah mwah.
Viktoria Levenberg: Thank you, take care.
Jelani De Leon: You too.
Viktoria Levenberg: Thank you so much for tuning into this podcast. I mean, there is so much juiciness in there. And really, some of my personal insights and reflections are, you know, the importance of having capacity for us to focus on other areas of our life, right? Like if we are giving everything away to our work—be it through like working late nights or even weekends—and we're so exhausted, like this is everything we pour our energy into, we don't realize that we then have absolutely no capacity left, or very little, for all these other areas of our life that may either be important or fill up our cup in our energy bucket.
And I just love that we spoke about the financial side of things and really reflecting on actually, what is it costing you to do this? So all this additional effort and time that you are spending, like are you really on your high achieving corporate ladder salary or are you watering that down? Like that was a big eye opener for me back in the day. And what are you not doing as a result, right? So for example, for Jella, she spoke about the investments, she spoke about going to the spin class that she's been wanting to try for ages.
Just have a little thinky, think about what, what are those unseen costs of over-investing your time and energy into your job.
So thank you so much for tuning in. If Jella's story resonated with you or it brought anything up, please do feel free um, to send me a DM or even reach out to Jella if you'd like to connect with her directly. She's been so generous to share her contact details, so those are linked in the bio below.
Thank you as always for tuning into Resonance. I'm incredibly grateful for you and I wish you a beautiful, beautiful day.
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The views and opinions expressed by guest on Resonance are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of me, Viktoria Levenberg, LVNHealth, or anyone working within the LVNHealth brand. This space welcomes a diversity of ideas, experiences and stories. And part of Resonance is learning to take what aligns and gently leaving the rest.
Also, while I am a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach and deeply passionate about well-being, this podcast is intended for educational and inspirational purposes only. Resonance does not substitute personalized medical, psychological, or therapeutic advice. Always seek guidance from qualified professionals for any physical, emotional, or mental health concerns.
